Sounds disturbing bass & how to get it to go away

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Cosmic Lizard
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Sounds disturbing bass & how to get it to go away

Post by Cosmic Lizard » Sun May 16, 2010 1:13 pm

Hi everyone,

I have a slight problem with my production and im getting desprate about it :roll . Sometimes my sounds & melody's disturb my bass in wich case my bass intends to fade in & out where its not supposed to be.
I know its not a bass-related problem but sound-related. Someone told me i should change volume & shape of sounds. The volume part i understand but what about the shape? :roll Does it means that i have to change the whole sound or..? Does it have anything to do with quantization? Or perhaps some effect? Most of my sounds contain auto filter, arpeggiator, pitch, phaser & flanger. For the record, almost all my sounds are made with vanguard & effects. I work with ableton, ive got no monitors atm so its really hard to produce like a really good track that way, its currently done on headset (getting monitors soon though, this month). To give you a great example i've uploaded 3mins where the bass sometimes fades in & out a bit. On some tracks its even worse.. :roll
https://www.yousendit.com/download/dXFX ... NVh2Wmc9PQ Anyone some ideas or solutions?? :cs
all the best! peace
Sven

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Post by Zero-Blade » Sun May 16, 2010 5:24 pm

It's all about equalization.

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Post by Plasma Force » Mon May 17, 2010 1:12 am

viewtopic.php?t=5329

How about that tutorial Kristiyan? :P

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Post by moondoggy » Mon May 17, 2010 1:24 am

eq indeed..make sure you adjust your eq AFTER setting your effects on your sounds and before fitting it into your composition..even slight adjustments after the sound is in place will alter that delicate balance..

[its like when youre painting and you put too many different colors on the same particular section of canvas..all becomes grey..too many waves from multiple sources on the same bandwidth, loss of definition]

**side note, really dig the opening/creative direction of the track, not to mention the burrito sample :Rolf keep up the great work sven
[boom]

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Post by Mandari » Mon May 17, 2010 7:41 am

hey bro,

nice to meet here again :D

so i guess your talking about phase correlation, therefor are many ways to rome. first sure equalization is a pretty important factor, when your sounds result in phasing out each other. BUT imao it´s up to the FX you used and what FX those are on which type of sound that give you the possibility to decide WHERE to put equalization. so....
there is no "put it there and all will be good". you have to decide yourself and think (and sure listen!!) about whats better in each situation.

try eq and HP all the sounds containing low freqs. in the bass area like 20-600hz. this is only some advice without having a listen to your sample. and sure it´s up to you how much each sound is allowed to hit the bass area. i use to cut the shit out of stuff that simply dont need a low freq. bottom. so sure i cut more out of these like maybe up to 1200hz. if it´s a low freq. leadsound that maybe needs some bottom, i try to cut exactly as i can near to the bass range, so maybe like 500-600hz, depending on the bass maybe even lower.

the result depends on how exactly you´re working and which eq´s u take use off.

imo the secret is all about the mixing stage, not anything else. because it´s not just simply equalizing, like mentioned above. it´s a state of art imo like mastering and production stage are.

so there are few more things important to get your stuff sounding well. to keep it simple just try to give each sound it´s own room. thinking of a 3 dimensional room and imagining the listeners position and put each sound where you want it to be captured by the listener.
stereo width and reverb are just two more important factors to give each sound it´s own room and arrange it in the space of a track. delays are sure another one. as you see it´s not only about equalization, but sure this is one important factor, if you dont think at it at the source.
you could avoid these problems if you work on the source and learn some basics about signal flow and music theories. one thing you should keep in mind is that one sound at a specific freq. range is half or double the freq. an octave down or up ;) just that simple and could save you a lot of work. the point is if you work each sound on the same note or the same octave, the problem you got will appear each time you´re starting a new track. just a very lil bit of theories and physics and there you go. :cs

many tracks i receive are often pretty mono and often people produce that superhighend blasting sound in nearly mono, just because they´re not familiar with these simple basics.

hope that kinda helps, feel free to ask if something´s not clear ;)

cheers: stephan



:drinks

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Post by Cosmic Lizard » Mon May 17, 2010 7:19 pm

first of all, i would like to thank you all for reply'ing to this thread :drinks
The good news is, that the sound (3min sample) i made doesnt contain EQ's, so perhaps this could change things a lot.. Its also great news that the problem can be fixed withouth messing to much with the shape of the sounds. On the other hand, much of my sounds are made around the same note's so it could be that it collides there. I will surely experiment with some EQ's, note's & fx in general to get the sound right..

At Jordan: thanks that you dig that sound :xdance the burrito sample is awesome, i was wondering to call this track Jesus loves burritos untill i stumbled on the problem. Someone up in the sky wasnt to happy about that rofl :roll

At Stephan: You work with ableton, so i've still got a question for you :kiss
On the auto filter on ableton you can play with freq's of your sounds, i uselly play with these freq's to get a real cool effect. For example change freq from 1.87 khz to 2.54 khz, it gives a really cool effect on sounds but could it be that my freq's sometimes come to low & disturb my bass? This is just a long shot in the dark :roll especially when almost every track of me contains this effect & the change with freq's and not all tracks have that problem.. & thanks for the tips on freq.range & octave's :cs didnt knew that. A funny thing though, not every track has this problem :crazyfly some tracks are still ok produced i think, without monitors or eq..
And delay's, reverbs & etc is the standard shizzle for me... I always use things like this to give the sound a hole other dimension
In conclusion: thanks to all :drinks Now its up to me haha :D its a part in music production i still need to learn more about. Ill keep you guys up to date on this, and if all goes very well, my new track will be coming up lol thanks again to all! 8) :drinks
Sven

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Post by moondoggy » Mon May 17, 2010 8:02 pm

Mandari wrote: first sure equalization is a pretty important factor, when your sounds result in phasing out each other. BUT imao it´s up to the FX you used and what FX those are on which type of sound that give you the possibility to decide WHERE to put equalization. so....
there is no "put it there and all will be good". you have to decide yourself and think (and sure listen!!) about whats better in each situation.

imo the secret is all about the mixing stage, not anything else. because it´s not just simply equalizing, like mentioned above. it´s a state of art imo like mastering and production stage are.
very well said, mixing stage is absolutely crucial..
with this particular piece i believe its in the eq

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Post by psilopsyben » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:49 am

that whole octave thing has me thinking of new ways to do things. Can't wait till I get home. One thing I do on most of my channels is I put an auto filter on it and use it to cut the low end at different frequencies, I don't have the lfo on, I just use it as a filter. That seems to bring a little something extra. also turning on the lfo just a little bit can do some fun things.

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Post by fryquenciezz » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:05 pm

qual eq , se te soar bem ao ouvires esta bom !
nada bate o nosso ouvido caros amigos ;)

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Post by Mandari » Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:52 am

well,

according to the autofilter thingy you have to keep in mind that you will create a notchy, disturbing sond exactly at that freq. range you put the autofilter at, IF you put the slope too notchy. so if you increase the q (slope) it will do exactly the same like an eq. btw, eq and filter is pretty much the same if one didnt recognize already. so to the filter goes the same like to the eq, the faster the slope falling down, the more ringing at that range you need to expect. so what i do is trying to keep that ringing as low as possible by decreasing the q button and putting the slope down. the same i do while eqing usually, cause if you need to hardly correct with a fast slope it doesnt make any sense, cause you will get even more ringing after.
so try to keep slope falling down slow to avoid disturbing stuff. if you like the result, just try to seperate with an eq behind the autofilter, putting down some the range you set at the autofilter. that way you keep the sound, just putting down the disturbing area. often things are just disturbing because they suddenly appear louder than before and need to be corrected.

a fast falling slope is simply cutting at a specific point like this "l"....so from one moment to the other there´s nearly no sound of the freq. range you set. it´s cut at -30db maybe.... our ear is recognizing sounds hard cutted or raised much more easy than a range which is slightly set up/down. next to that it recognizes raised areas much more easy than put downs. soooo. this is someway the only reason why one should try doin a slightly smooth mix/cut (which one should rather see as kind of a fade like this "/") if your desire is to apply this smooth feeling to it without any noises or stuff.
on the other side our ear gets very fast tired and bored by hard hitting sounds, disturbing ringing freq. ranges, phase correlations and sure too much compressed/limited music (lack of dynamics and difference in rms)
this is why you can listen to fastest/craziest music and getting tired after just few minutes of listening. it´s not only the music itself which will drive you crazy, also it´s the content of this music and how it reaches our ear and our brain.

soo, to come back to the point xD the autofilter is quite a nice tool, but should not be used to eq a sound or stuff. but as far i was able to read (^^) this was not your intention. so if the use is resulting in a ringing type of sound or otherwise disturbing some specific freq. range in your audio material, just try to put the q factor down. usually this should help. if you like the ringing notchy sound (which i had quite often) you can simply leave it like this and try to slightly put down that freq. range with a good linear phase eq like psp neon or stuff.

another thing to clean up your mix is the use of good M/S tools and panning tools. i forgot that to mention while i was talking about arranging sounds in the space of a track last time. sooo, in short one can say each sound with a different reverb to set the depth, M/S to adjust the mono and side sections (kinda depth story too) and sure panning to adjust loc. from left to right. i just wanted to leave that, because i found the ableton live panning to be very unaccurate. also many sounds are not really mono, even if you set it up like that. different types of processing will result in spreading the mono content. so if you want something to be exacty mono or even something between mono/stereo, one should feel free to consider taking use of these very helpful tools. they´re not just for mastering stage and all these tools will make life someway much more easy if used wise.

my recommendation if one´s looking for a really sick tool and some familiar and not afraid to take use of these, i´d leave just one suggestion solving lot of issues during mixing stage even if you got no access to the source/project file:

http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins

these are really state of the art plugins, but as like with most good ones, they´re not that cheap. so feel free to try before buy :roll

some stuff i also like and im really sad i actually cant use the dyno plugin: http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=28

these are somehow quite cool, i like their character, but this is exactly it. they got pretty much their own sound. decide on your own if you like them or not. i downed their original evaluation editions from their site i guess about half a year ago, but they seem really not to evaluate. anyways theres a message popping up eacht time you open the plugin, which shows up a message for a few seconds that it would be so kind if you do the right thing and register them. anyways, after this message is gone they work just fine ;) i got all of them and love to use badbassmojo i.e. on my bass section, because this ones really easy fattening it and "spreading" with a very smooth to absolutely aggressive character. at least i like it :D

one thing i want to leave is that these plugins are really working accurate and it depends often on your monitoring and your careful listening if you will recognize their work or not. so work a lot around with them, try to carefully listen, get familiar with their different characters and have some fun.

hope one doesnt mind the novel. just wanted to leave some more deep thought about how i get where i want to go. like i said to me it´s all about the mixing stage, and this sure is first about arranging the sonic content in the space you got. but this is a lot of work, one needs to be familiar with a few technical and physical aspects of music, signal flow and the function of the machines and softs you´re working with. at very first you need to know your monitors or spend a lot of money for really good and accurate monitoring and acoustics. im talking about accurate monitoring, no solutions like a 800 bucks genelec monitor. good monitoring starts anywhere at few thousand bucks each, imao the very start one could consider to take use of is a K&H O300 maybe. never had a listen to the bigger genelecs, maybe they´re good, but i dont like the clean sound of the smaller ones. i would love to have a listen to Event´s Opal, the new Equator Q10 and mostly i would love to have a listen to Tannoys Precision serious, especially the 8d. so cant tell about them, but K&H sounds just great, best i heared so far..... and before putting that much money into a 2 way system i would rather save few more bucks for three way.
anyways most experienced engineers still will recommend you a passive system, which most of us will not be able to pay. and secondly they will recommend to get more than just one system xD

anyways im a fan of digital stuff, im a child of the future. but still digital monitoring is quite expensive if you want to get it really accurate and true in response (the K&H start at 2.000€ each, which is quite cheap in their class of 3way monitoring). and at the end you can buy the most expensive monitoring system, if your room is not fit for them and your acoustix sucks in there, then you wont benefit any shit of it.... not talking bout the price of serious optimated acoustic installations...... :D

so, imo this is nothing one should worry about. there are lot of artists doin great mixing on ipod mobile systems. so it´s just up to know about your system and know what you´re doing. i´d recommend all of guys like me out there, not able to pay these huge amounts of money, to keep your monitoring you bought first and work with it as long as you can. i would never sell mine, weither how cheap they are. and what i really found to be very interesting is soft like the IK ARC system. got it, impressed! just some fiddling and needs accurate measuring of the room. anyways, worth to consider... share the cost by 5 ppl and it´s worth every single penny ;)

again pls excuse the novel, sorry for that, coffee´s guilty ^^ hehe

have fun, cheers

stephan

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