Sidechaining

Music creation & DJ mixing, how tos questions, discussions & help ~~~ Musical Software/hardware/skills etc...
LSDan
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Ripon UK

Sidechaining

Post by LSDan » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:01 pm

What the hell is side chain compression? It's mashing my head. How do I do it and what are the benefits of me using it on my kick and basslines?

Oxidelic
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:36 pm

Post by Oxidelic » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:19 pm

sidechain is used in almost every trance track outthere.
Why?

because the kik and bass shae the same frequency range, and if u know about freqs u'll notice that when two sources share the same range thy kill each other, they battle and sound becomes muddy, or with clikcs, or is just gone...! the bass waves are Long, they need more time to develope, the same for the kik.. and if in the middle they battle for the same frequency range???

so the sidechainig is like opening holes in certen freqs so that both can fit into one another.. like e real tetris
:D

User avatar
Zero-Blade
Psycho
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Contact:

Post by Zero-Blade » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:54 pm

OXIDELIC wrote:sidechain is used in almost every trance track outthere.
Why?

because the kik and bass shae the same frequency range, and if u know about freqs u'll notice that when two sources share the same range thy kill each other, they battle and sound becomes muddy, or with clikcs, or is just gone...! the bass waves are Long, they need more time to develope, the same for the kik.. and if in the middle they battle for the same frequency range???

so the sidechainig is like opening holes in certen freqs so that both can fit into one another.. like e real tetris
:D
Hey, Oxidelic, can you tell me a good VST for sidechaining and how exactly do I make a sidechain, cuz I had read an old post of yours about it, but couldn't make it :( I've tried it with Wave Arts TrackPlug 5

Oxidelic
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:36 pm

Post by Oxidelic » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:36 pm

sorry 4 the long post

zeerrooooooo
:D



if u use Logic Audio its easy as a kid game, u use the proper sidechain function of the compresors, they have build up internaly.. if not, here u have 2 solutions:

try the TC native bundle, there u can find among the other plugs an plug named "sidechainer". u put this plug on the kik channel (u must put it before the compresor) and than u put the compressor on the bass channel. when u open the compressor (the tc-compressor) u`ll see a button KEY ON. press it, now u're sidechaing, but to hear the real effect u need to play with the treshold, the release, the attack and all other functions ;) Try to lower the threshold to -19, try to put the ratio like 8:1 and than play with the rest, like Hold etc. to listen what u're doing u can mute your kik and u'll hear how everytime the kik plays it lowers the bass (even if the kik is muted..). This is the Raw way to do it. If u want better control u must make that the bass is compressed just by certain freqs of the kik (the ones that are in conflict with the bass). U do this so:

First send your kik to a bus (aux), but keep the output of the kik untouched. thus u have 2 kiks! so.. u mute the volume of the kik on the bus, u put an eq there, cut all the highs and all the lows (till 80hz) so u have isolated just a small freq-range of the kik (the punch, between 100 and 300-400hz), than on the same bus and after the EQ u put the Sidechainer of the tc-electronics. than u put the compressor on the bass channel and u folow the same as described above. u'll notice that if u begin to play with the equalizer (punching more the freqs, moving them a bit) u'll notice how this effects the bass, actually the bass is compressed via sidechain not from the whole kik but just from its punch, so the compression is much more faster and is not eating your second 16th of the bass line (supposing its a line of 16ths), so u must play a bit depending on the real sound of your kik and bass. :D

now if u want to use the Waves C1-sc (sc is for sidechain) u have to do it nother way:
as waves-c1 permit sidechainig over mono signal u have to make a lil trik. U pan full left your kik, and pan full right your bass. u send them both (panned) on a bus (keep this bus stereo). put over this bus the waves c1. and also send this bus to another (second) bus but this time make it Mono. So.. u openn the waves-c1, there u have to define that L (left, the kik) is compressing R (right, the bass). u have to play with the treshold, ratio, etc etc standart operations for comrepsors, until u get the desired sound, also in the C1 there is a very usefull function for internal equalization of the sidechain effect (thus u dont need to sedn the kik to another bus,make equalizations and stuff..).. everything u need is in the Waves-c1 compressor...

What u Must do if u DONT WANT TO USE THIS FUKING, BRAIN-CUTTING sidechain...???
imagine: a 4x4 standrt loop for trance should consist of 1 kik notes and 3bass notes.. like this: KBBB-KBBB-KBBB-KBBB.. right?
But the problem is that the kik, in most of the cases will still sounding when the 1st (2nd 16th) bass note is played.. so thus it interfers, and makes the sound horrible... U have to !!Shorten!! your kik! a lot of ppl think thay have to put all kind of warmers, bass-punchers, subbass boosters and other shit like this on the kik or on the bass and ths is an ERROR!!!! u put this shit when a mastering process is applyed! not earlier. U have to low-cut your kik (30-40hz) and also your bass (40-80Hz depends) so that there is ROOM! later.. when the trak is ready u can put warmifiers, bassboosters or whatever shit u like.. Why u make this? Because the subbas waves are extremly Potent and Powerfull but not so audible! so they will Mud your mix, they will interfiere over the entire frequancy range, and will mud everything and u'll finish pumpin up the volume of everything else.. and u'll destroy all the dinamics of the trak..
The subas is one of the biggest enemies when u make the trak. forget about them, u have to construct a good punchy and warm kik-bass and this u determine in the mid range, not the subbas raNGE.
What i meant is that u have to imagine this 4 "boxes" 1 for the kik and 3 for the bass notes. The idea is that the kik must not go out of its "box" because thus it interfear with the bass. But if u use sidechaining the kik can go out and can be heard even the 1st and 2nd note of the bass are played and both "fit" into one another because of the sidechain. Using a good constructed sidechain u can also have 4 16th bass notes!!!! every first note will overlaping the kik but if u have sidechain they will not interfere!! A MAgic ;) and also your bass will be more rolling!

..Or u can Equalize your bass (open certain freqs) so that when the kik overlaps it it fits into.. but for this u need really a very good equalizers and also a studio monitors, cuz on phones or other speakers the bass not heard correctly on the freqs we are speaking...

anyway... hope i've cleared (or blurred ehehehe ) more the sidechain situation
happy tweaking ;)

User avatar
Zero-Blade
Psycho
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Contact:

Post by Zero-Blade » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:58 pm

WHOA! You know I love you, don't you! :P :P :P

User avatar
Zero-Blade
Psycho
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 pm
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Contact:

Post by Zero-Blade » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:51 pm

OXIDELIC wrote: try the TC native bundle, there u can find among the other plugs an plug named "sidechainer". u put this plug on the kik channel (u must put it before the compresor) and than u put the compressor on the bass channel. when u open the compressor (the tc-compressor) u`ll see a button KEY ON. press it, now u're sidechaing, but to hear the real effect u need to play with the treshold, the release, the attack and all other functions ;) Try to lower the threshold to -19, try to put the ratio like 8:1 and than play with the rest, like Hold etc. to listen what u're doing u can mute your kik and u'll hear how everytime the kik plays it lowers the bass (even if the kik is muted..). This is the Raw way to do it.
Ok, either I'm blind or this button KEY ON is missing:
Image

???

Oxidelic
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:36 pm

Post by Oxidelic » Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:43 pm

key input
:grin:
:monkeydance
:lol:
:kiss

LSDan
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Ripon UK

Post by LSDan » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:31 am

Ah, I actually do this all the time. I didn't realise it was sidechaining. I use the mdx that comes with Korg Legacy collection. Works a dream

faxinadu
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:18 pm
Location: Israel
Contact:

Post by faxinadu » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:50 pm

its cool, but its not used as widely as you may think...
i used to use it for a while, and then found that i can get the basslines i want without it.

all depends on what u r trying to do

LSDan
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Ripon UK

Post by LSDan » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:57 pm

I find it only really helps if you want a throbbing/pulsing bassline

Oxidelic
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:36 pm

Post by Oxidelic » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:01 pm

i use sidechain because of the breaks. imagine...

i have rolling standart k-b-b-b combination. but than if i have some breaks and refils.. u know 2 1/16th kik notes, or 3 or what ever break i want where obviously the kik will overlap some bass notes... instead of earasing every bass note which overlaps, or if i have some sophisicated break with the kiks.. well sidechain comes very handy cuz it lowers the bass notes (in certain freqs, not all the sound!) which are overlaping! so i can make a lot of small refills, breaks and stuff without trouble of some masive peak, or blurred sound in the low end.
u can make great kik-bassline combinations without any sidechaining, but u need a good monitors i think, so that both are EQed properly and fit one in another.
on the other hand, a bad constructed sidechain can be lethal for your bass-kik lines ;)

LSDan
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:22 am
Location: Ripon UK

Post by LSDan » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:33 am

Lethal yes, it needs to be re-eq'd afterwards though. I think a lot of people fail to do this

User avatar
serz
3plaĞ connected!
3plaĞ connected!
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:30 pm
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Contact:

Post by serz » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:26 am

The kick/bass will always need good eq, and compresssion is important too.

Oxidelic
ॐ Vibe
ॐ Vibe
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:36 pm

Post by Oxidelic » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:33 pm

here some tutorials for sidechaining ;) for diferent platforms and diferent effects..
maybe it can be useful for smbdy...

:cheers

http://experimedia.net/page.php?id=102

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests